This is healthy. I was a little angry when I wrote my last post having just been rejected by another Mormon. But I'm learning things from your comments and emails. One email in particular really shed some light on my situation. A mo' man gave me another explanation for why I have more success dating regular guys than mormons.
I suppose it should have been obvious to me but I had no idea. Having never lived in a Mormon community, I didn't know how prevalent this phenomenon was. Sure, people from Utah often seemed a little odd. But I really didn't think they were still living in the 1950s. In terms of women's liberation, mormons are some 40 or 50 years behind the rest of the nation. So I have been told. I haven't been there in 8 years and never stayed longer than a vacation so I have no firsthand knowledge of the matter. Please correct me in the comments if this is wrong.
Here's a quote from the email: "In Mormonland, guys don't have examples of strong independent women to look to. So when they see one, meet one, talk to one, or in this case read one, it throws them for a loop and since they don't expect to see this, they get insecure, and as stated earlier, guys who are insecure about something will take flight. " He also explained that in the regular world, women are now expected to run beside men. But in Mormon culture the women are still expected to watch and cheer. Clearly, if my informant is correct, then my independent ways scare off most Mormon men. I had been told this before but I never believed it because I had no way to understand that fear.
It's like someone turned the light on in my room. It all makes sense now. Every Mormon guy I have dated or was pursued by had a very strong mother. The best mo relationship of my life was had with a man whose mother was a total bada**, she even scared me. This man and I had no conflicts and our interactions with each other were the most natural and easy that I've ever experienced.
This also explains what happened with the boy from Logan. I met him online and we began a long distance relationship that was strange. After two months we got into a fight on the phone. We were discussing our politics for the first time. Of course, as a poster boy product of mormonism and Utah, he was a raging conservative. As the child of angry intellectual mormon hippies growing up on the east coast it should shock no one that I am a socialist. But it shocked him, so he proceeded to explain to me the erroroneous nature of my beliefs. Anyone who knows me right now is laughing.
We talked for a long time. It started as a good debate because he was intelligent. Except that I was winning. He was running out of things to say and growing increasingly angry. I was getting angry too. Then he told me I was "being a spoiled brat." WHAT? (he's calling me names?) I told him he was ignorant. Then we started shouting until I hung up. He called later. I expected an apology. Nope. He called to tell to me why he is in fact not ignorant and so I needed to apologize and take that back. In the interests of the relationship, I gave him an apology. Then I asked for an apology. He said he couldn't apologize because he meant what he said because it was true. I acted like a spoiled brat. He didn't want to insult me by saying something he didn't mean. EXCUSE ME???? I asked him to define 'spoiled brat' and tell me what I did to deserve the epithet, but he wouldn't do it. Surprise.
After a few days, we worked it out mostly because he was flying out to see me the following week. I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. He was so excessively insulting and condescending because he was likely not used to losing arguments to women. His mother probably coddled him and his inflated ego must have been stroked to no end by whimpering girlfriends. I decided to wait until we spent our week together to see if he could overcome it or not. But that wasn't his first sexist faux pas. He told me once that he was glad I was a virgin. I thought that was weird so I asked him why it mattered. He said, "Because I've resisted temptation and saved myself. So my wife should have been able to wait too." Shiver. So, having oral sex means that you waited and you're still a virgin buddy? Oh right, because that wasn't your fault--the girl was a horny slut and you couldn't stop her. Ok, then.
I should have known better but I really had no referential knowledge of this type of man. (I went to a women's college!) I tried anyway. He went running back to the mountains after meeting me. Good riddance, but it stung to be dumped by someone like him. The point of that story is to show why I believe my informant is correct. This guy was pure old fashioned sexism, he thought it would be exciting to date someone so 'independent' but in the end he couldn't stomach it.
Here's what I've learned:
1) The ones who run away are saving me time from having to dump them.
2) I should ask my prospective Mormon dates about their mothers and sisters.
3) I should ask them if they think it is appropriate to refer to non-virgin women as "used goods", (This woman writes about experiencing that here.)
Dare I hope that this non-women's liberation thing doesn't apply to those men from non-Mormon communities? Theoretically, my luck in NY should be better than it would be in Utah. I don't know. We have a lot of transplants here. What do you think? How different is the sample of mo men here from those living in red states--oops, I mean, more traditional places? ;-)
**Another interesting point made by my informant was this: "Do a rough count of all the guys who comment on here... I'm willing to give you 4 to 1 odds that more than
75% of them are married, and are married to strong women." That is certainly what it looks like if one reads the comments to this post and this post. Anyone want to weigh in on that issue? I think he's right.