Inspired by some of the commenting going on for this post, I want to ask the men a question.
For you single males out there:
What is your ideal woman? Or, better yet: What kind of woman are you looking for?
Please describe her qualities in the comments and indicate if you are LDS or not, include your age if you don't mind.
For Example:
I'm LDS, 28 yrs old
Ideal woman: smart, college degree, pretty, LDS, etc.......
For the married men:
Please list the things you love most about your wife.
Women, join in with comments if are you so inclined.
Men, if you have more to say you are welcome to it.
I'm curious about the correspondence or lack thereof between what single men want and what married men love most about their wives. I'd also like to correct any misperceptions I may have about what men want. And you guys should have a chance to speak for yourselves.
***Is this thing on? Hello? Hello? Single Men?** If you don't correct my misperceptions now, then I will continue to believe I have nothing to offer that LDS men want. And I'll go call that nice Jewish boy. If you care about the well-being of his poor mother you won't let that happen!
Come back for more TRUE stories of the strange, sad and pathetic exploits of me not having sex in the city.
42 comments:
I'm not going to be of much use. My wife is perfect ...
What I like most about her is that she likes me. When we go to sleep at night, she instinctively cuddles up on my shoulder, she smiles when she sees my car and knows I'm at home, and she is alway happy to see me.
Message from Ethesis (Steve M)
I like tall dark haired women with blue eyes.
I like women who have a sense of fun, because I largely don't.
I like a woman that can talk, because I like to listen.
Guess what my wife is like? :-)
Message from Anonymous
I'm LDS and married. My wife is the most naturally talented person I've ever known. She is extremely artistic. She is intelligent; not in a formal, educated, "book-smart" way, but in a natural way. She has a wicked sense of humor. She writes great letters (the best I've ever read among my correspondents) and, more recently, great e-mails. She naturally is shy, but she has risen above that limitation and pursued her passion, which is alt. rock/no depression music. She is fearless, and goes into Chicago or to Minneapolis or wherever by herself to attend the many, many concerts she goes to. (I gave up trying to keep up with her a long time ago.) And she has made a whole cadre of friends who are into the same thing, something I would have thought was impossible many years ago. She is the coolest LDS wife and mom you can imagine.
Message from Kevin Barney
What I wanted physically was a red-haired women with green eyes. what I got was a (almost) black-haired woman with hazel eyes.
Beyond that, I got everything I wanted.
My wife is very intelligent. She is beautiful. She is informed on social issues. she is committed to the same faith as I am. she is an outstanding mother who constantly sacrifices her self for the children. We like a lot of the same music. She appreciates the arts. She is a very loving person. She is someone I trust telling my secrets. She is an amazing singer.
She is all-around phenomenal.
Message from Kim Siever
It's not popular to say this, but physical attraction has to be there. I do think it is faulty reasoning to have a "type", because you can be attracted to people who don't fit your "type", however it can not be discounted to have a strong physical attraction. This is so important in a marriage relationship, you need to feel a spark beyond that of deep friendship.
So, some guys are going to look for someone who works out, and is in shape. Some guys are going to like a girl with a little more meat on her bones. Some guys are going to like short girls, tall girls, etc. It's not any different than with girls. I know that we say that personality is important, and it is the most important thing, but can we honestly say that we don't want a good looking guy? I don't think so.
In response to your other post, yes there are good guys out there who want a girl despite problems. My hubby married me despite the fact that I have epstien bar and can't work, despite the fact that I have endometriosis and we may never have kids. There are many good ones out there who are following the true principles of the gospel, and who are willing to sacrifice for the one they love.
Maybe you just live in the wrong town? ;)
Message from Aimee Roo
I have to pipe in and say my husband is really the most amazing wonderful husband in the world. He has loved me through thick and thin (literally) he supports and honours me. He treats me like a queen and we communicate so well. We complement each other and grow together. He is a marvelous man.
Anyway, I agree with Aimee that looks are important to a degree, but honestly it is how your husband sees YOU. My husband has always thought I am beautiful even when I haven't thought so, lol.
It caries what men want. What I did was become the sort of person I wanted my husband to want. If that makes sense. And of course it was ongoing. It always is as our marriages continuing growing and developing.
Message from MarySiever
Mary and Kim are just too cute! :-)
I hope I can have a marriage like yours.
Message from JL
When my husband got home from his mission, he went on the lookout for a wife. He had four criteria: a love of the Gospel, affection, cleanliness, and good health. I fit all those criteria. It's also important that he find you attractive. Like my dad says, "You have to wake up to that face for the rest of your life, so choose wisely." ^_^
Message from Sister T
Don't get your hopes up JL. Mary's just exaggerating.
Message from Kim Siever
My husband has often said that he loves me most for my strength. He decided he was going to marry me the day I jumped out of the car and started cussing out a police officer for treating a bunch of innocent teenagers like criminals.
As usual, I was embarrassed after, but he thought I was glorious. Go figure.
My husband is a pleaser, he will bend over backwards to make sure that everyone is comfortable and happy.
He has said on any number of occations that I taught him that it was okay to stand up for himself. I should mention that he taught me that it does matter the way you treat people, and since being married to him my social skills have improved ten fold.
He also loves that I "am smarter than him" even though I'm not really. Maybe in the academic, who can write the best pararaph sense, I might be smarter. But I won't even list the number of ways he's smarter than me, it would hurt too much.
I don't think we really understood all this ten years ago (WE WERE BABIES!), and there were some real struggles as we tried to figure each other out and balance our strengths and weaknesses. I think being more mature before you choose you'll have one up on us.
We really couldn't be more different, but there are men out there who really like the strong women, if you can find them.
The other thing I love about the dear husband is that after our first daughter was born, and several times since, he has expressed how glad he is that they have me as their example of womanhood. That they will be strong and know that they can do anything they want to do. I don't know if I agree since I haven't done much of anything.
Message from Lisa
The first thing that attracted me to my wife was seeing how friendly she was and how well she treated other people. At the time I was worn out and not really looking for a relationship -- but she made a point of introducing herself and being friendly. It got so that I looked forward to seeing Diane and saying hi to her at Church. Then there was a party at her house and I saw how she made sure each person received individual attention and was having a good time ... and of course she paid plenty of attention to me. I left that party thinking "If I don't ask her out, I'm crazy."
My wife is an independent thinker and spiritual person. She was a convert to the Church at the age of 16 -- the first of her sisters to make that jump ... which wasn't an easy thing to do. But she really was converted to the Gospel ... not the culture of the Church but the gospel.
My wife has educational ambition. She is a fourth-year medical student. I've always been very supportive of her but she's done this largely on her own steam (though I am working full-time to support us in the meanwhile).
My wife is musical. She was a competitive pianist in high school. Now she mostly uses her musical skills in the ward, though I think she'd prefer a different kind of a calling.
My wife comes from a great family. Her parents aren't LDS but they have these great traditional Chinese values -- which basically means they are very family-oriented and they have high expectations of their daughters. I don't think they thought I was the most ideal choice for their perfect daughter but they've been very supportive and loving since we got engaged.
Of course I think my wife is a Foxey Lady.
My wife is a loyal and commitment type person. She's not a player and she has pretty strict boundaries as far as relationships go. Early on in our dating (though we dated for two years) she felt the same desire that I felt for an exclusive affectionate relationshiop. That was huge because I had dated and even gotten engaged to someone who was non-commital beforehand ... and that was not a positive experience for me at all.
Message from danithew
OK ... that comment was too long. Sorry 'bout that. :)
Message from danithew
Danithew,
Not too long. It heartens me to see such loving tributes by men to their wives. I haven't had much experience with happily married people. So write all you want to.
:-)
Message from JL
I'm starting to think that the only men who want a real woman are the ones that are already married. If a single man doesn't pipe up soon I will return to abusing the single mormons of the male sex.
Message from JL
This is, of course, the wrong question, JL. The important thing for you isn't what other men want in a woman (so you can make yourself that way), but what you want (so you can become/attract that kind of person).
Optimally, you should be placing your list of what you want here, and applicants should be applying.
That doesn't work, though.
Because,
You do not know what you want.
What you've been taught and what you feel are not always the same. And that is difficult. But it is, philosopher that you are, the stuff of many legends.
Message from Anon
Anon,
That is cryptic. To what legends do you refer?
And I wonder how you can say that I don't know what I want? I think I do. Whether or not that's what I need is a different matter and to which I'll agree I don't really know.
I am NOT trying to find out what men want so I can become that. I already am who I am. I just want to know if my generalization about what most mormon men are looking for--which is not a woman like me because our culture taught them to want a different kind of woman-- is correct or not. I wrote a list in the comments to my last post. One guy said my list was wrong. So I am asking for a correction. Of course this all silly and inconsequential to real life. But now when I state such generalizations about what mormon men want I can point to this post and say I have proof. And of course that is silly too. But I'd rather do this than my work. It keeps me from thinking about how I was trashed in my observation report and can kiss my teaching job goodbye.
Message from JL
It keeps me from thinking about how I was trashed in my observation report and can kiss my teaching job goodbye. Remember, observation reports are for improving. You need to make a list of successes you had teaching before, what was different in your current approach, how that dovetails with the problems in the observation report and how you can correct the mistakes in direction.
That makes the report a success, your problems in it ones of misdirection of an otherwise successful teacher, and reflects solutions for the future, which is what is generally wanted by those who write and use such reports.
Message from Ethesis (Steve M)
LDS 22
short, dark hair, pretty (in my eyes)
same committment to the Gospel. ie "Equally yoked"
I tell myself that's all that matters, and all other little details will resolve themselves. (It worked for my sister)
So guys in general are losers. Single LDS guys in particular are losers. They are taught to say they want one thing, but they really want something else. They (or rather) we all need to grow up. I think it's unfortunate in our culture that the guys are supposed to do the chasing, as I think women can make a lot better decisions in these matters. I could be wrong as I have no practical experience
Message from eremite
In my experience, many (most?) guys start with looks. Not necessarily enlightened, but it's what happens.
You start with a pool of girls / women who you find attractive physically. And from there, you see which (if any) of them meet your other criteria of intelligence, personality, righteousness, etc.
E.g., "Well, Sally, Jenny, and Lisa are all cute. I'll ask them all out." And then, after a bit of experimentation, "Sally is boring, and Lisa is too [whatever], but Jenny seems to match well." And so he marries Jenny.
The bottom line is, personality, intelligence, talent, whatever -- they only come into play _after_ you've gotten through the general admission gate of "is she cute?" My impression is that probably ~75% of LDS guys use this basic model.
Message from Kaimi
On the cute thing. I don't think it's quite that simple. Simply because I was really pretty (not so much anymore) and I almost never got asked out. My mom used to tell me boys were scared of me. I think I did lack some social skills, but I wasn't that scary. I think boys were turned off by my brash.
But then, I got married at nineteen, so my dating history was pretty short to begin with.
Message from Lisa
I'm totally embarrassed that I wrote that now. I'm an idiot. No social skills.
Message from Lisa
LDS, 27 years old.
Other than my wife just being so damn hot, what I love most is her seemingly unlimmited patience and confidence in me. If you knew me, you would know how great that makes her.
Since Pres. Hinckley's pseudo-feminist talk in conference, I have been trying to see more of the divine in her. The above mentioned qualities are what I keep seeing.
Simplest terms: She is a hotty who putts up with me.
Message from Ian
I've learned from long and sad experience that answering questions like these is typically a no-win situation, but here goes:
Single, 27, LDS.
I am looking for, in no particular order:
* A woman with large breasts and a small waist. Just kidding.
* A woman who is intellectually curious. She doesn't have to be brilliant (I'm not either). I just want someone who won't wrinkle her nose in contempt when I ask her, "Who do you think makes bus schedules?"
* A woman whose sense of humor is similar to mine. Sense of humor has tremendous power to divide or unite. Thinking the same things are funny, and thinking the other person is funny, is fun, romantic, and important.
* A woman whose world view is similar to mine. We don't have to carbon copies. But coming from different genders and different families will provide enough differences. Seeing the world in similar ways is important to me. I'm not expecting 100% compatibility, but seeing the world, the Gospel, marriage, children, etc. in similar ways helps. I want us to want similar things from life.
* A woman who is quirky, idiosnycratic, and feminine. I don't know why, but I find all of these irresisitible.
* A woman who has the intangible magnetic pull that makes me think about her when I'm not with her and makes it so I can't stop looking at her when I am.
* A woman whom I find physically attractive. There. I said it. I know. I'm a pig and an ass and a bore. But I want to want to kiss her and touch her.
Message from Davis Bell
Davis,
Well Done!!! You get three gold stars for being a brave and honest single guy over 25 who answered the question.
Now was that so hard? I'm not looking to criticize. I'm honestly curious.
Eremite,
You get gold stars for being the first single guy to answer the question. And I'm willing to bet based on your attitude you will be married by 25.
Message from JL
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH DESIRING A SPOUSE THAT IS HOT!!!!
IT is not piggy-- it is human. That's why God made us attracted to each other in this way. No one should be ashamed of saying it. I've tried dating men I wasn't attracted to because they were nice and it never works. So don't waste your time trying. Date the hotties.
Message from JL
My wife is very tall, blonde, and blue-eyed and athletic, and I am extremely attracted to her. Before her I always liked brunettes, so go figure. We've been married 23 years. She is smart (this is essential); understands the concept of commitment and is committed to me, to our kids, and to the gospel; generally obsessed with excellence; feisty; creatively talented; professionally accomplished; and has a wonderful, dry sense of humor. We laugh together all the time. Those are the traits that come to mind right away. There are many others.
Don't date or marry out of the Church. My wife and I held out for the best and we think we got it.
Lowell
Message from Lowell
I had a hellish childhood. I promised myself at age 6 (yes 6) I would never get married unless it could be forever - no divorce, or no marriage. I was not LDS.
Subsequently, I joined the church. I didn't fit in. Our family was not the perfect LDS family. We had all kinds of warts and bruises. Therefore, the good LDS guys were taken or unavailable. So I dated outside the church. I still knew I would not marry anyone unless it would never result in divorce. That was my criteria.
After dating many guys I had almost given up. Then I began dating a guy that was not all that attractive to others. To me he was gorgeous. Me - I was a skinny, straggly young woman, that hardly knew how to apply mascara. He wasn't LDS. My mom was having heart failure. I didn't pressure him to even learn the Gospel. We dated for 3 years. Never did he go to church with me. Interestingly enough his marriage proposal included his desire to join the church. We have been married 30 years.
Moral - good things can and will happen to you if you know what you want - in eternal standard types of ways. Some people would say I got lucky. I believe, I got what I set out to get. A friend, lover, companion and goof off partner for life because that's what I decided I wanted. It is still lots of hard work.
I do not envy young people's posistion today. My youngest is in the throws of dating and courtship and turmoil. I have to remind her that the most important thing is to drop the "list" and find a friend.
Message from cooper
Thank you everyone for your participation. I still wish more single men had dropped a comment but it was good to hear from all you marrieds. It does give one hope. It sounds like everyone just has to follow their own path.
Message from JL
I am a 29-year-old Single Mormon guy
I don't have an ideal woman. I handle each on a case-by-case basis. But over the years I have found that there are some traits that I look for in a woman. I grew up in a family that loved to joke around so sense of humor is a must! I am passionate about the outdoors so I want a woman who enjoys at least some outdoor activities.
I have a few things on a list of things that I would like to have in a woman. Tall, Spanish speaking, SCUBA certified, ticklish, artistic. They aren’t deal breakers but things that get high marks in my book.
I have dated members, non-members and members who were not very committed. While a really wonderful non-member is better than a mediocre member the best is a member who is committed to the gospel. I have found some that met the requirements but obviously it didn't work out. And I admit that I let a lot go because I was focused on school and other things that were more important to me at the time. So here I am in Utah surrounded by members and I still haven’t found anyone. Yet. I know I will only marry a member and I only date members now. I date all ages, basically whoever shows a little interest.
Message from M
In all fairness, I think I should answer my own question here. And I also have been glued to the computer all day long so I can neglect my life and this one more thing which I can do to uselessly occupy my time.
I don't have an ideal anymore either. I also have things I would prefer to have in my mate but I'm actually very flexible--perhaps too much so.
They are:
At least my height (5'10ish) but taller is even better, smart enough that his eyes don't glaze over when I talk and he doesn't bore me so much that I have to put the phone on the table while he talks and intermittenly pick it up and go 'yeah' then return the phone to the table. Educated enough that we can understand each other in conversation. Someone who isn't conservative. Strong member of the church. Somewhat funky either in appearance or personality. Loves music. Tolerates cats. Wants the same kind of family I do. Confident. Makes me laugh. And I really need someone who is good with time and money since I am wretched with both.
If you are single and it sounds like I could be describing you and you are interested in what you know about me, email.
Message from JL
I'm single. Recently Engaged. The woman to which I am engaged is a great deal different than (a) me (b) who I imagined I would marry.
Yes, she's far more attractive than I really deserve, but physical attraction has never had staying power with me unless there something engaging behind it (pun not intended--that is most accurate word).
She doesn't have nearly as much education as I have, she has been in and out of the church over most of her adult life, and she's from a family that is best described as dysfunctional (at least amongst the ones that she has not outlived).
But she has a depth of humility and compassion that has made a deep impression on me. Her approach to the relationship has been the prime instigator in fostering a sentiment that I find to be unnecessarily rare: unconditional acceptance (in both directions).
I'm ashamed that I couldn't see these qualities without having to be humbled myself. Quite frankly, I couldn't see what I needed until I was willing become genuinely frightened that I was not going to find anyone...that I was going to have to "settle" or compromise.
So what's my point?
I think to some degree, for some of us (er, me), it wasn't until there was an air of desperation that I was finally able to simply realize the value in the woman I was dating. I don't think it was the case of myself "being" the person who was capable of being ready to be married, or a good spouse, or whatever, but rather it was "seeing" what before, I did not see.
And now, maybe I should have expected this--I don't know--but I've found that in being willing to settle, that I didn't have to settle. For every quality that I was looking for that she does not have, she brings a something to the table that quite frankly, I need--or need to be exposed to, etc.
One last thought--beautiful or not (and she is), but regardless--she can be sensual. She's comfortable with it. You can flame this message all you want, but I worry that sometimes, in the church, that we've become so preoccupied with being chaste that we've extinguished good-old sensual desire. Maybe it's a subcultural thing or what..but many LDS women I've dated have fallen into the extreme categories--too willing, or too unwilling. Where is the mystery in that? Desire is not fostered by either.
In any case, toss the list ...toss it... the "list" is, in it's heart--mean-spirited and self-serving. I can testify that the moment you know what you are looking for, the less likely you are to find it. And quite frankly, most people do not know what they are looking for because they are not willing to put themselves under glass and discern what they actually need, myself included.
My list? When I found her? (this is the truth)----someone with whom I am comfortable, someone to whom I can be attracted (note: there are and have been many women to whom I have been attracted who did not necessarily fit the world's bill for "beautiful"), and someone whom I can accept and who can accept me.
Message from ft
JL, based on your comments in this thread, I would have been perfect for you (tall, strong member of the Church, liberal, good sense of humor, pretty good with time and money, etc.). Too bad I'm (a) at least 10 years too old for you (I'm 46) and (b) already happily married. But there are definitely guys out there who fit what you are looking for, so by all means don't give up; keep looking.
Message from Kevin Barney
M,
I believe that JL fits quite nicely with your list: Tall, Spanish speaking, SCUBA certified, ticklish, artistic.
*though I'm not sure how ticklish she is, she's tall, loves to scuba dive, speaks/understands some spanish, and she's VERY artistic (music, painting, writing, photography, etc. )
Message from Jill
Morrissey in Dallas tonight.
Too bad Win has to work tonight and I've got to work tomorrow...
At least we got to see Heather's Young Women's program.
My list was always qualities of being, an essence I was looking for, not the way the person around it looked. Good thing, too, or I'd have missed my wife.
Message from Ethesis (Steve M)
Um, no. Actually you don't know what you want. Otherwise, you wouldn't freeze when you get a chance, like at that concert. You would just get/take what you wanted, and that would be that.
Message from Anonymous
Anon,
How lucky you are to be you. It must be nice knowing everything. I suppose then you have everything you want because you take it with no problems at all. And you must have the spouse of your dreams too. Lucky lucky you.
Message from Anonymous
Hmm, rereading this reminded me of a girl who was a friend of mine (which is different from a girl friend).
We did some social stuff together, but when it started to change up, I reminded her that I really wasn't tall enough to fit her ideals. With the advice I had given her she quickly changed things around in her social life.
Her problem? 5'2" "Beaner" was blond, looked like a prettier Bo Dereck and ran 20 miles a week or more, worked part time and studied hard. The combination of extreme good looks and being busy caused guys to just pass her by as unobtainable. All she needed to do was relax and be a little "warm" (a vocal tone, and just a little) with guys she was interested in and they suddenly were very interested in her.
Being "accessible" (as in not making guys scared of rejection, not as in being a public utility) is a key for many women who land the guys they want.
But it also takes being able to be interested in guys who have given up on you or who aren't making your heart twitter with their swagger.
Message from Ethesis (Steve M)
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