...and you leave on your own, and you go home and you cry... Not this time!

Oh, does JL have a date this weekend? Why, yes she does! Woo hoo.

But we aren't going to get too excited yet, because he is not LDS and does not know that she is Mormon and celibate.

I don't want to give too many details because I know he is an heavy internet user, but,.... A certain performer whom I inordinately love performed in A.C. last night. Since I had no friends to go with, and I knew people in the city would have difficulty getting there, I posted a ride-share ad online. I got a few responses, and ended up with a free ticket and two gentlemen passengers. They were both very sweet and I loved having their company.

The show was fantastic, as always, but very surreal. This performer does not usually play in fancy casinos. On the way to the concert hall, we had to pass through the lush gilded hotel and gambling rooms filled with elderly people and tourists. Unfortunately, the sound system was abysmal. But the singer was fabulous and broke all our hearts, as always. He enjoyed himself and hammed it up since it was the last performance of the American tour. You can read a review of the concert from V here.

One of my passengers and I hit it off, and somehow the evening turned into a pre-date date for us. We arrived early and the younger guy wanted to wait in line, but we wanted to eat, since we are crusty old-timers. The over-priced buffet was the only food available. There we sat at a table together talking (he is very cute by the way), in our posh and gauche surroundings. He was very polite, sweet, and funny. It felt like a first date, but without the pressure and with the promise of the show afterwards to make everything better.

During the show, we stood together and shouted our observations and remarks in each other's ears. We smiled at each other over certain songs, danced together, and sang the same words. I couldn't help feeling as though I might be falling for this man, he who stood by my side as the music washed over us. Sharing such a happy and significant event created a potent intimacy. At one point, it almost felt like he wanted to kiss me, as we looked at each other with contentment during the beautiful, sad, slow song (fans know which one; yes, the slowest and saddest song in the repertoire). Even though I knew all of this was just the thrill of the moment and the music, I enjoyed it while it lasted.

During the encore, after the dozen or so stage rushes, the performer threw his sweaty shirt into the audience, right next to us. A mob riot ensued for possession of the shirt. It went on for 15-20 minutes. Both of us got pushed and pulled by the fray, but he caught me and held on to keep me from falling to the floor. Then he helped extract me from the dangerous nerdy crowd, by pulling me away with him. On our way out the door, he gave me a big hug.

The drive home took 3 hours, because I went the wrong way and ended up in Philadelphia, a typical mistake for me. We talked the whole way. The other fan slept in the back seat. As we neared the city, he asked me out. I said yes. He wants to take me dancing.

Now. I have to tell him about my religion and no-sex thing. He was puzzled by my not drinking and asked about it. To my shame, I was dishonest about the reason why. I said, 'for one thing it's because I'm on medication'. Which is true, but not. My sorry excuse is that I didn't want to ruin the night with truth and reality. Probably a bad call.

The last non-LDS man I went out with went ballistic when I told him about my celibacy. Even though it was just our first date, he went on and on about how I should have told him earlier. So, I must tell my new friend the news before we go out, right? I guess I should do it on the phone. Maybe he'll be OK with things, being the artsy sensitive type of guy, but...

The truth is, regular men expect sex to be part of dating, as one of the major reasons to date. Why would they want to date a woman who won't have sex with them, when other women will? Don't they have to be extremely mature or very desperate? I hope I am being overly cynical in my estimation, but I've had men tell me as much.

Either way, I had a wonderful evening with a lovely man and the best pop music ever made. I did not go home, cry and want to die on this night.


V said...

Hey JL, I was there too! Great show. I took the Greyhound to get there. I did a little review on my blog. I went alone, wish I'd known earlier about you being there, we could have met up.

Ann said...

I don't think you need to tell him you're celibate on the first date. I don't think regular guys expect nice women to have sex with them on a first date. Really.

Just go out and have fun. You're not renting a hall yet, after all.

J.L. said...

I'm so sorry I didn't email you. We had room in the car for one more. That sucks! Where were you? I was on the right front about four people from the stage.

That used to be my view, that we could just have fun at first, and then I'd bring it up. But the last weirdo really laid into me for it.

Ann said...

JL: Operative word: Weirdo.

Is this guy a weirdo?

J.L. said...

That remains to be seen. Based on my history, chances are high. But, he isn't a recovering coke addict who chews like his 200 pound dog...so, cross your fingers.

Michael said...

last guy was crazy for going ballistic. I don't think you need to tell him you're celibate before the first date- but you should definitely tell him on the first date.

I don't think all men necessarily demand sex as part of dating- but most just assume that it will be a part of it so if you don't tell them and commit to a second date I think that most would find that you were hiding it or being deceptive.

I hope it goes well, this is exciting news.

V said...

That's alright JL, I was just sitting on the riser. Hey, you were by that chick "Julie." The one Moz kept giving the mic to.

Anonymous said...

I recently went on 2 dates, and upon learning that I was Mormon, both men asked me directly if I was a virgin. They both went on and on about how it will be difficult for me to find a man who does not think sex is an important part of a relationship. Ironically, it *is* because I think it is so important that I choose my choice, so to speak.

Additionally, I clarified with one of them, "Let's make sure we are being honest, here. You mean to say, that most men see sex as an important part of their casual dating behavior."

Bottom line, it's not appropriate to discuss sexual history on the first date. It's like saying, "You know, before we get on with the date, do you have any sexually-transmitted diseases? on Viagra? etc., etc.?"

It's not your First Date's *right* to know this about you. You are not his possession. You have not been called up to service him. Next time, get up and leave.

V said...

Hey, JL, I've tagged for an "8 random facts" thing at my blog. Don't gotta do it if you don't want to.

Matt said...

JL, what, there's no Mormon guys in their 30s to date in Gotham?

So what your viewpoint in dating non-members: it's the flirt-to-convert route, or the married-him-anyway-but-have-constant-arguments-over-religion-in-front-of-your-children route?

Beijing said...

I have lived in the world AND of the world, so to speak, for a few years now, and I assure you that a good man does not expect sex on the first date. Not even out here in the horrible, nasty "world." Not even amongst atheists who fear no wrath of any God. In fact, there are a lot of men who would not want to date a woman who offered sex on the first date. Even the "Sex and the City" people wait until the third date for gosh sake, and they move way faster than normal people in real life.

Ultimately, like on the fourth or fifth or sixth date when it becomes appropriate to maybe TALK about the theoretical existence of sex somewhere in the universe, it will still take some effort to cross the language barrier with people on issues of religion and sex. If you say, "I'm a virgin, and I won't have sex before marriage," you don't know what kinds of images words like "virgin" and "sex" and "marriage" are conjuring up for him. To him, "virgin" might evoke Girl A whom he dated celibately for many years before she finally said OK to sex then changed her mind afterward and dumped him because of it. "Sex" might conjure up comfortable, gentle, loving sex with Girl B. "Marriage" might be a very fraught topic if his parents had a bad marriage. If that's his background, your sentence comes across like, "I'm going to act like Girl A unless you embark on a path that failed spectacularly for your parents," and that is unenticing to be sure.

Also, if he is not a student of religion generally, he might have Mormon teachings about sex all mixed up with Catholic teachings and whatever else he's imagined. When you say, "I'm saving myself for marriage..." he might assume that the rest of the story is, "...and even when I'm married I'm going to be frigid and unavailable for sex" or "...after I'm married I will refuse to have sex except when I'm fertile, and will therefore have sex a total of 17 times in my life, leading to a total of 17 children." Clearly neither of those is true. If he has proven himself in the first several (many!) dates to be someone you can talk to, and who opens up to talk to you, then it should not be difficult to dispel misconceptions like that when the time comes to talk about it.

J.L. said...

Thanks! I'll work on it, put it up in a few days. (I was near Julie, like 2 people to the right and 4 behind. But I couldn't see her, she was too short. I think she was the girl that M hugged at the end with the streaked hair.) Oh, and by the middle I was wishing I had seats because I am getting old!

LDS guys tend not to want to date me. The last 3 I went out with were: a loser, crazy, and blew me off. I refuse to lower my standards just to get an LDS man. I don't have a viewpoint on it, I keep resolving not to date non-LDS men until I get fed up with the mormons again and meet a cute non-mo.

Thank you for the advice. I appreciate hearing it from another perspective. I know men don't expect sex on the first date. I just don't want to pull a bait and switch, where they assume they are getting into one kind of thing and find something else entirely.

I decided to hold off on the reveal until we are at least on the first date, realized I would come off as a freak to just announce 'hey, you're not getting any from me' before we've even gone out.

Anonymous said...

I had never gone out with a non-Mormon before. I was at work one afternoon and this girl was in my area bringing something from another building )on the other side of this small town where I currently live). I have a picture of a temple in my cubicle and she asked me about it. I told her I was a Mormon and I asked if she had ever met a Mormon. She gave me her digits.

While we were doing things, she was curious if I was very devout. We would talk about religion and she was fairly respectful. She had some anti junk and it was pathetic. I for the most part was on the lookout for ways I could be compromised and for the most part I was good. I think one thing I needed a little more of was the 'I have a stomach ache' excuse when I was on the verge of being jumped. I had fairly good reflexes though so that helps.

My point is that it was a chance to share my beliefs so that was a positive. It was kind of a waste of time though too because there were feelings involved to get over, and if its not going anywhere substantial, its a waste of time.

noelle f. said...

Hi there. Double check your link for "Mormon Mentality" on the LDS Group blogs on your sidebar. I think you've got HTTP 2x there.

Anonymous said...

I think it's considerate of you to let him know on the first date. It seems once we get to a certain age people do expect sex to be part of dating.

It's not weird to wait until you're married to have sex. Anyone with good intentions will be respectful of your views and appreciate your honesty.

Anonymous said...

I'm Mormon and dating a non-member. I told him on the first date that I was a virgin, but he didn't remember because three months into it I had to tell him again and it turned out that he had waited to have sex till he was 23. He had originally planned on waiting till he was married. So there are people/men out there that understand even if they haven't waited or aren't waiting any longer. There's still hope that this guy might be totally cool with it :)

the tortise said...

Ok, so I am a mormon adult woman who does not have a lot of experience with dating period, not to mention non-members. But there really haven't been any LDS guys that have shown a lot of interest. Frankly, they seem slightly immature and feel like the singles ward is their cup of tea b/c the male to female ratio is so skewed in their favor. Anyway, tangent over...I have met a very nice man, non-LDS, who has been married and divorced, and we have been seeing eachother for 4 or 5 weeks and he has been very respectful. He knows I am LDS but we haven't really talked about what that means, per say. I am not sure how to do it. I know if he's the "right" kind of guy he will be understanding, but i am nervous about the rejection anyway, if thats what it comes to...any advise on how to bring it up? Bejiing, your comments were great. I understand more of what "NOT TO DO" but what would be the right way "TO DO" it?